The Excitement Economy: A Money-Free Utopia

This is the transcript of an interview/conversation between Alicen Grey and Mickey Z. on Episode #8 of The Post-Woke Podcast


PART 1

MICKEY Z: You recently told me about plans you had to write an article about something called “The Excitement Economy,” and I thought that would be an excellent jumping-off point for our discussion. But before I ask you to tell the listeners what you mean by this phrase, I want to share this anecdote: I typed “Excitement Economy” into a plucky little search engine called Google. The entire first page gave me returns about something called “emotion economy,” which related to A.I. bots learning human emotions as yet another way to manipulate, control and surveil us. Something tells me this is diametrically opposed to what you mean [by “Excitement Economy”].

ALICEN GREY: (laughs) Yes, totally.

MZ: So feel free to elaborate.

AG: Let me just give a shout-out to the person I learned this term from. Way back in the early days of the internet, there was a YouTuber I followed, who has since deleted these videos, so I will not say exactly who I’m talking about, because I assume she doesn’t necessarily want to be known as a “starseed” anymore. But this woman, Sarah, used to claim to be a starseed from the system Arcturus, and she did a Q&A video once (the video no longer exists, so I’m going to do my best from memory to honor exactly what she said).

Somebody asked her “What is the economy in Arcturus like?” She got so happy, there was this light coming out of her eyes. And she said, “They don’t use currency the way we use currency on Earth. Instead, on Arcturus, we have what’s called an Excitement Economy. So basically you do things that excite you, and that’s the payment.”

For example, if you go to a farmer and they give you food, it’s because it excites them to grow food and feed their community. And then as payment, you would sing a song, if that’s what excites you. They would be paid in the excitement of watching you sing and do what you were born to do. She went through all these other examples of the kinds of exchanges people could have if they were trading excitement instead of money. She said what she loved the most about this economic system was that, because everyone would only effectively be able to pay their way through life through excitement, no one could be stuck in a job that wasn’t meant for them. No one could be stuck doing a task that drained them of energy. It addressed the problems we have with Earth’s many different models of economics, where people who don’t have the right skills, or don’t have the desire to be in a certain role, will force themselves into a role because that’s where the bigger paycheck is, or because they want to bring honor to their family with a good title like “Lawyer” or “Doctor.”

She said, probably the biggest problem on Earth is that so many people are doing what they don’t want to do, because certain jobs are valued as higher than others. But on Arcturus, everyone is doing exactly what their soul calls them to do. The payment is equal because everyone’s excited.

That’s really all I remember from her explanation, but it resonated so strongly with me, I never forgot it. And to this day, I try my best to remember that excitement counts as a reason to do things. It’s not a waste of time, and it’s not a loss to pay each other in excitement, essentially.

MZ: Thank you for the explanation. At the end I like that you said, “I try my best to remember…” because I found myself thinking (while you were talking) that we know this inherently as children. It is something that we have to remember. When you watch two children interact, the Excitement Economy is in full effect. They’re doing precisely what they want to do for the sheer excitement of it. Two dogs crossing paths on the street on leashes, can’t wait to get to each other and they’re so excited.

And it’s interesting that if you watch when the dog or the child interacts with an adult human, they don’t always get the matched excitement, because we’ve already had a big chunk of that programmed out of us, where you have to be “practical,” and you have to “earn a living,” and you have to compromise, and you have to “play the game” — ironic, because if we were really playing and it really was a game, we would be excited! It doesn’t seem like a game. It seems like a rigged system.

Regardless of the origin of the story (and it’s up to each individual to decide how they feel about the origin), it sounds like a thought-provoking concept to interject into your daily life. You’re not going to overthrow capitalism with excitement in one day, but you can bring a version of the Excitement Economy, or the Excitement Exchange, pretty easily into your daily life. Because I personally believe when you share your excitement with someone who is even remotely connected with you, they usually feel their own excitement and are more likely to share something excited back with you.

AG: Yeah! And I want to pedal back to [when] you were listing off the conditioning we receive. And one of the things we are conditioned to believe, is that we must prove our worth, and that the most effective way to prove our worth to our surrounding society is by having a good job. A “good job” is one that pays us in a lot of money. We don’t think of good jobs as ones that treat us like human beings, or allow us to really radiate our true essence to the world. And what I love about this idea of the Excitement Economy, is that it is based on the idea — not the idea, the Truth — that what matters more than anything is that you align your behaviors with your soul’s essence.

The Excitement Economy can only function if everyone is living their purpose. Whereas in capitalism, it does seem that there’s an ongoing tension between people tying to live their purpose, and people trying to make money from living their purpose. I think that’s why there’s been such a boom in the coaching industry.

When I was preparing for this podcast episode, I was really reflecting on what the economy looks like from my perspective in my field, being somebody who’s into psionics, metaphysics, and the supernatural side of life. Most of the people who share those interests, the way they make money, is through coaching and teaching about magical traditions and occult knowledge, and creating courses on how to be more magical, and stuff like that.

And it’s funny, because if you really step back and look at what’s happening, it’s basically… how do I explain this nicely? I don’t want to hate on any coaches. I’ve learned so much from so many of these people. But it’s like… you’ve got people saying with their mouth, “Oh yeah, magick is the ability to manifest anything you desire. Now pay me to tell you how to do that.”

And it’s like, well, if you can manifest anything you desire, why don’t you manifest what you need without the middle-man of money?

I look at these people and I think they haven’t really deeply questioned why they’re still engaging with money on that level. Because if you really could materialize anything you need, which is what magic is, then how are you still so dependent on this fiat currency system?

I’m a hypocrite, because obviously I still have a dayjob, I do make money through freelancing. But I am making efforts to leave that behind and so I’ve introduced more bartering into my life, I’ve introduced more of the gifting economy… I’m deprogramming myself from this idea that money should matter to me, or that the things I do aren’t legitimate unless I have a certain amount of money in my bank account. So I am at least trying to undo some of the automatic money conditioning I’ve got running in my brain.

So it’s just weird to see so many magicians falling for probably the biggest black magick scam history has ever seen. Someone broke down how money itself, physical currency, is a giant black magic scheme, because you’ve got the entire world fighting, and killing, and hating each other, over this thing that only has value because we decide that it does. That’s magick. That is magick.

MZ: That’s dark magick. Since you owned up to the hypocritical part, I’ll do the same: Here I am talking to you on a podcast where I’m going to be taking breaks asking people to become paid subscribers. We understand that we live in a society where, at least, we’re told we need money. So it’s very hard to break that pattern.

And to backtrack a little more, when you said in an Excitement Economy by definition everyone would be living out their truest self, or living their dreams… I would say capitalism thrives on very few of us living out our dreams. Certain ones, like billionaires and athletes and movie stars living out their dreams, they’re perfect advertisements for capitalism. As for the rest of us: No offense, but nobody dreams of becoming an actuary. You take it because it’s a practical job and you might actually be good at it.

The other thing that capitalism does is that it implants dreams in us. So we can even tell ourselves we’re living out our dreams, but it’s the dreams of the System, not our individual dreams. When my second book [came out], Murdering of My Years: Artists and Activists Making Ends Meet, when I would do talks, I would ask people, “When you talk to a child and ask them, ‘What are they going to be when they grow up?’ (which is an insult because they’re already something now) their answers are going to be fantastical. Their imaginations, what they want to be, and what they see as possible for them… everything is possible! Nothing is impossible! They could be a unicorn when they grow up if they believe it. But you’ll get a lot of ballerinas and astronauts or whatever it might be. You don’t get someone saying “I want to be the night manager at Rite-Aid.” And no offense to night managers at Rite Aid, but I’m saying there’s not a 5-year old on the planet (unless that’s what their dad does) who is going to even know that job exists.

This isn’t automatically an anti-capitalist rant. It’s just juxtaposing this concept that we understand that magic exists, and we use it in daily life as a word and concept. But because we live in a system where the people at the top stay at the top if we buy into their system, we’re told that things like magic and the occult and even manifestation, are crazy, that they’re things crazy people think of. So we’re afraid to be ostracized. So we might talk about it here or there, but we don’t center our life around it. And I would wonder, I would just love to see what kind of world we would live in, if people were less concerned about looking crazy, and more curious about what else is possible out there, besides what’s happening here.

I understand in the short-term, especially if you have a family, you’re not going to say, “All right I’m going to disappear and become ‘this’.” But there has to be incremental steps we can take individually, and then ultimately collectively, to move away from a system that actively denies us a chance to pursue our dreams.

AG: Right! Okay, you said something that triggered the desire to rant. You said ‘if more people were centering magic in their lives…’ The saddest thing I’ve seen as a magician who, you know, is surrounded by other magicians both virtually and in real life, is… even those who are initiates, and are practicing some sort of magical tradition, or are on some sort of magical path… It seems like the main goal — they’ve been subsumed by this idea that the ultimate demonstration of your magical abilities is to manifest more money.

And again, if you look around at the supernatural coaching industry, the way that a lot of these coaches hook you in is by promising you that if you follow their steps you’ll make more money. And so many people line up to give them money to learn how to make more money.

I said that on Facebook once, and somebody said, “Give me a dollar and I’ll show you how to make a dollar.”

MZ: (laughs)

AG: And it’s so frustrating to watch this happen because… okay, the argument these coaches always make (that really makes my blood boil) is that, “If you’re still in poverty it’s because on a subconscious level, you have a ‘scarcity mindset,’ and you have limiting subconscious beliefs that prevent you from making more money, and the way to make more money is to go all the way deep down into your subconscious and address those beliefs.” Right? And there’s some merit to that idea, for sure. It’s true. You can have any reality you want by changing your subconscious beliefs.

What pisses me off is this idea that, the deepest core belief that needs to be addressed is that you shouldn’t make more money. But it’s like, no. What if the deepest wound we all collectively have around money, is this idea that we need it at all?

I mean, every single one of us in our genetic memory, remembers a time before money, where we were tight-knit communities, where everybody had a role to play, everybody was assigned this role based on what they were best at, so that the community’s needs were met in the most efficient way possible. Like you wouldn’t ask somebody to be a hunter to feed the community unless they were actually good at it. So again, it kind of hearkening back to this idea of the Excitement Economy, where everybody had a role to play, and everyone was fulfilled by fulfilling their role on behalf of everyone. It was a very Service-to-Others format.

And some communities in the world still live like that! It irks me, to say the least, when manifestation coaches and other magicians emphasize the importance of undoing limiting beliefs about making money, when I think what we could be doing is undoing this collective subconscious belief that we need money at all. I think that’s the deeper damage.

MZ: Yeah, and that is the deeper, dare I say, solution. It’s the bolder solution. You brought it perfectly back full-circle to the concept of the Excitement Economy. I believe with all my heart that if you got individual people, or small groups of people, to listen to a version of this conversation, where they can — put aside the first couple of minutes, they might make some jokes about not being able to buy a car with “excitement” or whatever —

AG: (laughs) I disagree, but okay!

MZ: But once they allow themselves to reflexively resist, which is what we are all (you and I included) trained to do, we don’t question this System… but you could peel that back rather quickly. So once you peel that back and start to listen, you realize, what you’re describing right there — like you said, the Hunter, the Farmer, the Person Who Sings the Song — what you’re describing, the vast majority of humans would say it sounds like a Paradise!

Because what are you contrasting it against? The people who would buck up against you might be like, “No, I want to be a millionaire! I want a mansion and a yacht!” But they’re still talking about this System over here. Who needs a mansion and a yacht when you live in a world where everyone is pursuing their highest calling and following their dreams and feeling excitement on a daily basis?

What are we afraid of in this world? We’re afraid of each other. We’re afraid of crime. Lately we’re afraid of people’s breath.

AG: (sad laugh)

MZ: And when everybody is excited, and pursuing their dreams (as long as those dreams aren’t, obviously, criminal dreams that are going to impose on others), you’re going to live in a far more peaceful and enlightened culture. It sounds Pollyanna, but why not pursue Pollyanna? Look what we’re accepting as normal! And it’s getting more abnormal by the hour! And when you talk about something like this, you and I sound like we’re the “crazy” ones.

AG: Oh man, there’s like three directions I want to go in from that. Remind me to come back to this idea of ‘materializing things out of thin air,’ because it’s important.

It’s interesting you brought up the point about some people wanting mansions and yachts. My initial reaction to that is, “Well, there’s people who really enjoy building mansions and yachts, so if they were excited to do it, and you were excited to receive it, that’s the transaction right there, so you’re welcome!”

MZ: (laughs) There you go!

AG: The other thing is, it’s worth asking: Do people really want mansions, or do they want the freedom that comes with having like, 50 rooms in your house, taking up a lot of space? What does this material symbolize? I think not a lot of people are asking themselves that crucial question. Like, “Is it really the car you want? Or is it the admiration you’d get from driving it down the street?”

I know this is so cliche, but just look at how many rich people are miserable. I don’t want to hear it anymore, from manifestation coaches, that like, “The real issue is that you’re blocking yourself from receiving what you want and having material evidence of your manifestations is necessarily the proof that you’re getting better at manifesting.” Because what I like to say to people is, “Manifestation without shadow work, is just masochism.”

And I’m going to say it again because it’s important!

MZ: Say it for the people in the back!

AG: “Manifestation without shadow work, is just masochism.”

MZ: Can you clarify shadow work, for any listeners who aren’t familiar with that?

AG: Yes! So, shadow work is a fancy way of saying: examining your subconscious motivations for the things that you want, and the things that you do, and the things you believe. So for example: Shadow work could be applied to somebody who keeps running into abusive relationships but doesn’t know why they keep finding abusive people attractive. So you would do shadow work, which means you would sit down and really examine, like, “What is it about these people I find admirable? What makes them alluring to me?”

And then you most likely would find that, probably in childhood or some other formative time of your life, you absorbed certain expectations, certain beliefs, certain self-limitations, from your community, from your family, from your own experiences. And now it’s become an engrained pattern in your subconscious mind. And your subconscious mind is where you primarily manifest your reality from, because it’s automatic. Like a computer running software. It’s just there. And until you uninstall it and replace it with something else, you’re going to keep running that program, and running into the same problems. So “shadow work” is a fancy way of saying, parsing through what’s going on in your subconscious, and then changing it consciously.

So I’m not convinced that most people actually want cars and mansions. I think everyone wants Love. And we’ve fallen for this lie that that need for Love can be met with the kind of admiration and envy that people demonstrate when we drive by them in our nice car. And it’s never enough. Again, that’s why so many rich people are just so miserable — because they can manifest material things, but you can’t manifest fulfillment through… — unless you’ve done your shadow work to find what you actually want when you seek out a car, the car is not going to make you feel fulfilled. You have to really understand that the car is just a symbol. Everything material that we manifest is just a symbol.

I think that’s really hard for people to grasp when they’ve been convinced that the material world is all there is.

So while I’m on this concept of materialism, let me go back to what I mentioned about ‘materializing things out of thin air.’ I know most of your listeners might not understand what I’m saying and that I’m being literal right now, but I know the magicians listening will understand me just fine: The thing about magick, which is really just the science of potentials, and making the impossible possible (that’s really what magick is, it’s looking at “Oh I wonder what else is possible?” and then making it happen.) So… magick, when you’re a reallyreallyreally advanced magician, and you are so bioelectric that you warp time-space around you, like your presence is enough to introduce chaotic possibilities into every environment you walk into — you can literally manifest things out of thin air. As a matter of fact, that’s why I think the Excitement Economy is the highest ideal as it pertains to social transactions because you eliminate this middle-man of money or currency — the value of which is determined by shadowy overlords who we’ve never met, you know, why did we agree to this at all?

And when you eliminate this middle-man [money] that only serves a handful of humans on Earth and then enslaves the rest of us, then you’re just left with the direct contact of dealing with the person in front of you. And then you have to be vulnerable, and you have to connect with them, and it’s really intimate. Bartering is intimate. Giving gifts is intimate. And I think that’s what we fear when we rely on money so much.

If we were all to get back to our magical roots and remember how much power we actually have, I think we’d all remember that instead of manifesting the money to buy dinner tonight, we could just manifest the dinner directly. Instead of manifesting the money to buy a new laptop, we could manifest the laptop directly.

And I’m saying this from experience. I’ve manifested things that I saw no way of happening — there was no logical reason to believe I could manifest a specific item — and then it just drops into my reality!

Even with the music I’m making — I love that this happened and I’m still mind-blown over it — recently, I got into the practice of Scripting, which is where you recognize your words actually warp time-space, and so your words can change reality, and that’s why you have to be so careful what you say. And you can actually take this and then write reality as you wish to see it. So you write your desires as if they’re already true. And this is called Scripting because reality then has to follow that Script. Like your life is a play and you’re writing it in realtime.

So I wrote a Script back in September, that I met a musical collaborator who I really vibe with, and who’s really kind, and who really brings out my potential, and understands what I’m going for… I wrote it so that I would get help from somebody who knew what they were doing, in order to get back on my music path. Because getting back on my music path is my highest excitement. And I was like, okay, but I need help, and I recognize that I can’t do this alone, and I’m ready to connect with other human beings who can help me on this journey.

And then, Mickey, I kid you not. The next day. I got a message (from a Facebook friend, who I didn’t know at the time, I had just kinda added him haphazardly)… that led to a conversation about how he’s a sound engineer, and he’s a professional musician, and he would like to help me learn more about how it all works, how to produce music… and it all turned into a barter, where, in exchange for editing a manuscript that he’s basically had sitting around that he’s wanted to work on for a while, he is producing my EP! And that’s our barter. I’m developing his manuscript and he’s developing my musical debut. And that’s Sean! That’s how I met Sean! From making magick!

So that’s why when I tell people you actually don’t need money, I can’t stress it enough. There are ways to meet your needs that don’t involve this black magick money system.

Real quick — if you look at money, if you really look at the U.S. dollar, just look at how many occult symbols are all over it, and tell me you’re not participating in a shadow magick operation every time you use it. You are! And then even credit cards! If you look at the back of [Visa] cards, there’s an image of a dove flying in a holographic film. And if you look into the history of that image, it’s actually a dove with a tether around its foot so it can’t fly away. What does it say that we make transactions using this card that features the symbol of a bird who can’t fly away? Everything about money is so shady, my dude!

MZ: That last bit, it is the perfect metaphor for a credit card. When you’re young and you get your first credit card, you imagine that it’s freedom. And then you realize you can’t fly away. You have to cut them up and toss them because otherwise you’ll never fly away.

I love that also, when you’re talking about doing XYZ without money, you are talking literally. There’s a metaphorical [version of this] conversation: “You can do this without money” is sort of a [thing you hear on] websites that tell you ways to do things on a low budget or whatever. But you’re saying, no, you can get a laptop, or you can produce and release a great song, and you can do it without money.

What you and Sean are demonstrating is that you’re bringing both of your excitement to this “transaction.” And then doubling the excitement — at least, I don’t know how to quantify it — by releasing the excitement of art, you song and his manuscript. In fact, the ripple effect is almost unmeasurable. In fact it is unmeasurable, in terms of how many people will read or listen to those artistic creations and then either be inspired to make songs or write books or something else, but the excitement keeps growing.

And if people allow themselves to focus on this, they’ll say what sounds like to modern ears to be a whacky idea initially, after just a little bit of parsing it out, starts to not only make sense, but also just sound so much more attractive. Because like you said, the people who want the material stuff, again that’s part of the programming. And also as you said, it’s a replacement for other stuff they haven’t yet been able to find — or for that matter, to bring it back, there are some people whose excitement would be in building luxury yachts. For them that’s [what they love] — they love the sketching it out, they love the physics, and all the work that goes into it. So they would match up perfectly with someone who wanted a luxury yacht. And so there still doesn’t have to be money changing hands, and it doesn’t have to be this cutthroat competitive environment that we currently live in.


PART 2

MZ: Alicen, before we went to the break, I mentioned some interest in you offering some general input to people who are listening to this but may not know where or how to start to introduce these concepts into their life.

AG: I should acknowledge that I talk about magick very casually, and psionic abilities, and things that have been quite literally demonized by our culture at large. So it can strike people as dangerous or stupid or crazy, and all these negative things, to consider doing magick for themselves. They hear “witchcraft” and think “Oh god no, I can’t do that, because then I’ll go to hell!”

What I really want people to understand is that you’re never-not doing magick. Every moment of your life, every thought you think, every feeling you feel, every action you take, shapes your reality as you know it. Magick is just becoming conscious of the ways in which you’re shaping your reality. And that’s really what it means to do “shadow work.” That’s really what it means to “manifest” things. Shining light on the subconscious mechanisms that contribute to your perception of the world and of your own life.

So, maybe instead of saying magick or manifestation, I could phrase it as, “Applying conscious intent to the things that you do, say, feel and believe, in order to influence your reality to be more like the reality you desire.”

When we’re talking about money, the first practical step… it’s funny, I’m saying “practical step” like this is so practical!

MZ: (laughs)

AG: But, uh, utopia right? Let’s talk about what it means to contemplate utopia. This can be hard because our culture is so fixated on dystopia. There’s so much media out there like lusting after the apocalypse: zombie movies, pandemic movies, disaster movies… There’s so much programming that makes it harder and harder and harder by the day, for people to conceive of a better world. So the situation for a lot of people — especially with this COVID psyop — looks really hopeless.

I want to remind people that it is a literal truth that everything you can imagine is real. The first thing, though, is that you have to let yourself imagine it.

So in a utopia, would you need money to feed your family? No, right?

MZ: No.

AG: And another thing… Even the utopia conversation has been hijacked by these evil technocrats. The thing that comes to mind that spooks people when we talk about not-dealing with money, is that article by the World Economic Forum: “You Will Own Nothing and You Will Be Happy.” It’s like pro-socialism. Or actually, you know what, I don’t have the brain for economics, I don’t even know if that’s the correct term to describe what it is they’re trying to bring about. Basically, we’ve got these elites trying to convince everyone that it’s such a good thing to let the government become the source of all your needs, like food and water and shelter.

What I’m proposing is we don’t need them at all. We don’t need the middle-man of money or the people who determine the value of money (which is the government). What we need to do is remember that we are the engineers of reality. And we have to let our imaginations go to those places where we could invent economic systems that have never even been seen before. Forget capitalism, forget socialism, forget communism, forget all these other in-betweens. We could literally have an Economy of Excitement.

So that leads me into the second thing: In many ways we are already practicing an Economy of Excitement. People are going to do what they want to do regardless of whether there’s a monetary reward or not, because again, on some level, all of us know that money is not the most rewarding thing ever. What we all really want is to feel loved and to feel fulfilled!

So one question I think manifestation coaches get right, is that they often ask their clients [who are] trying to create a life path where they’re making money from what they love: “What do you do in your free time that you don’t get paid for, that you would do anyway, even if you didn’t get paid for it?” They’re like, “Start there,” because that’s a sign that that’s something you’re motivated to do regardless of what the incentive is. That is your true essence coming through.

For example, I find myself writing even when I don’t have a paid platform to publish it. Because writing is something like a soul compulsion. You can’t stop me from writing.

MZ: Likewise!

AG: So I would start there. I run HologramPress.com on donations, that’s how much I am compelled do it, without the middle-man of money. So I would encourage everyone to start with asking themselves that question. “What do I do when I have free time, and I’m feeling pretty good, and everything else for the day is taken care of, and now I’m just left to my own devices?”

The answer to that question — what do I do when I’m totally free to do anything — is usually the best place to start asking yourself, “What do I have to offer the world that I do motivated by excitement? And that would excite others? What do people come to me for?”

In my case, people come to me for inspiration. That’s something I’m really good at! I’m good at opening up possibilities in people’s minds, and that’s something people tell me all the time. They’re like, “Oh my god, I didn’t believe in magick until I started reading your stuff!” And it’s like, yeah, because I’m gonna talk about magick whether I get paid to do it or not, because I fully trust that magick is real and it keeps working for me, over and over, every single day of my life more magick happens.

I think I’m kind of getting off the point here, so I’ll let you chime in…

MZ: I wanted to interject a quote, because when you said people don’t really want money, they want to be loved and fulfilled, it reminded me of this quote from Fred Rogers, AKA Mister Rogers. He says, “You know, I think everyone longs to be loved, and longs to know that he or she is lovable. And consequently, the greatest thing we can do is to let people know that they are loved and capable of loving.”

It’s almost like he wrote a manifesto for an Excitement Economy right there. So I guess to reign it in then: if somebody was listening, and they were like, “What’s a step I could introduce into my life as soon as this podcast ends, and say, ‘What am I just not thinking of, or what have I been programmed to not-think of, that I could shift my perspective a few degrees in one direction or the other, and that would open up doors and windows that I haven’t looked through since I was a child’?”

AG: Aside from contemplating utopia, and asking yourself “What do I do when I feel free?” I think the next step is to actually be brave enough to offer barters, and learn how to give.

The wonderful thing about the Excitement Economy is because the payment is intrinsic to the action, you will feel excited and fulfilled regardless of whether someone repays you or not. There’s almost no way to bring you down once you’re doing what excites you in life. Whether someone gives you something in return or not, you’re still excited!

There’s a real freedom in [that]. It’s part of the self-liberation path to find what compels you to live bigger and do that thing, regardless of the consequences.

Let’s say there’s an artist you admire, and you don’t have the money to pay them for what it is that they do. You could ask them, “What else can I do for you? How can I show you my support in a way that doesn’t involve money? Could I share your stuff? Do you need costumes made for your next performance? Do you need someone to help you set up your stage? There’s always a way to support each other in the Excitement Economy, and the only way to find out is to be brave enough to ask.

And! Actually that was what I wanted to say before we took our break. I want to give a shout-out to artists, because when I think of the Excitement Economy I think of artists, because most artists are lambasted for accepting no payment in exchange for what they create. Artists are so looked-down-upon, but then they’re caught in a bind where, if they start compromising their art and start making art that’s more profitable ad commercialized, they’re accused of “selling out” and “having no integrity” — so it’s like, well what do you want them to do?!

I appreciate that artists are the Utopians. They are the ones who show us what else is possible. They’re the ones who anchor the force of Imagination here into the material world. Think of surrealist painters like Salvador Dali who showed us these surreal landscapes. They don’t exist, except in his mind. But when you look at his paintings, just looking at them gives you a sense of awe. And awe is a signal that you are onto something new. Your heart is opening to possibilities.

Artists are so crucial for being able to generate that feeling [of awe] in their audiences. It reminds us of what’s possible, and how much of our potential we’ve abandoned, rejected or suppressed.

So actually that’s my final recommendation:

There’s this practice I’ve gotten into, inspired by Carolyn Elliott. She’s a wonderful writer, I really vibe with her. She encourages you, as part of awakening your Inner Genius — the part of you that has all the best ideas and lives life to the fullest — she encourages keeping an Inspiration Journal, where you write down absolutely anything that gives you that feeling, that spark of excitement or awe in life. It could be a quote that strikes a chord with you. It could be an image that makes you gasp. You could write down an event that happened during your day that blew your mind. You could put anything in this journal — a dream you had that you thought was interesting… anything that makes you feel inspired.

The point of keeping this journal is that over time, you will start to see a common thread between all the different things that make you feel that way, and you’ll find your soul’s essence by observing these symbolic representations of your own Self [reflected] back to you.

So for example: The things I tend to write down in my journal involve astrology. And I think that’s because part of my soul’s essence is to be an astrologer. I love reading the stars, I love sensing those subtle currents of energy, and people often come to me for astrological insights. That’s because that’s part of my soul’s higher calling.

As long as I stay on that path where I’m inspired by the celestial events, I know that I’m fulfilling part of why I came here. So Inspiration Journals are a great way someone can find what it is that they can do to participate in the Excitement Economy.

MZ: I love that because it’s also a way to counter-program what we’ve been taught to value. By writing down a moment that brought you to a place of awe or reverence is not something that is automatically translatable to income in today’s world.

But from the time we’re at least in high school and we meet with our first guidance counselor, they try and “get your feet on the ground” and “get your head out of the clouds” and “do something practical.” And I understand where they’re coming from to some degree. But it’s sort of beaten out of you, that your Inspiration Journal doesn’t have to be what you’ve been told inspires people [like] what we see in movies, what we see with the worship of wealth in this country and on this planet, and instead just having these moments…

You could call it whatever you want — your Excitement Journal, your Gratitude Journal — but it’s anything that causes you to stop and appreciate being alive. The wonder of that is that over a little bit of time, it starts to reveal itself as a pattern. You learn — you RE-learn about yourself, because we know this inherently, what excites us and why we really want it life, and we know it as a child. There might be a time period where we forget it because of cultural conditioning. The good news is that it’s recoverable. And once it’s recovered you take actions to honor it and live your life that way.

I think that would be a wonderful collection of steps that you just suggested, to remind people so many more things are possible, and they have more freedom than they imagined.

I know you were using it colloquially when you said “in your free time,” but [I] just want to remind people that time is free! Your free time is when you decide it’s your free time. You can structure your life in a way that makes sense to you without worrying what other people think.

Again, thank you for a wonderful collection of inspirational tips and suggestions and ideas that I hope will inspire people to sit down and start their own journal and rekindle their own journey.

I appreciate it, and I appreciate you for being on Post-Woke!

AG: Thank you again for having me! This is a conversation my soul has been eager to have, and I don’t see much space for Utopian conversations in the world, so I appreciate you providing space for that.

MZ: It’s my pleasure. Let’s encourage everyone listening, in this time period where people start pondering New Years Resolutions, to make 2022 a time of utopian conversations. If there’s ever been a time for us to move in that direction, it’s right now.

This is only my 8th episode and you’ve been on 3 times, so you’re practically a co-host at this point.

AG: (laughs)

MZ: I do want to point out to listeners that when you and I talk, we have long phone conversations, and conversations like this aren’t just reserved for recording a podcast. We talk like this all the time. And I say that, in a way, to encourage people to seek out these heart-rendering, heartwarming, mind-expanding conversations. Life doesn’t have to be small talk, or saying what you think someone else wants to say. Try and surround yourself with people that will go off on tangents and challenge you to think of new ideas, and challenge you to challenge your own conditioning and thinking. That’s something I’m blessed to have in all the years that I’ve known you, and I feel even doubly blessed to be able to share it with all the listeners.

AG: I’m excited to talk to you all the time! In fact, I always used to say, “Man I wish we could share our conversations with people!” because I love our conversations. And now we’re doing it, because it excites us to do so!

MZ: There you go!

AG: So we’re leading by example, and that’s one more thing I want to say about practicing the Excitement Economy. You have to be willing to be the one person who eschews money and chooses excitement over profit sometimes. It’s okay to be the only one. Once you spark that fire, people will be inspired by your example. It might take some time for into unfold in their own life, but once you plant the seed, it starts to germinate. You just have to be willing to go for it, and be excited, even in a world where excitement is discouraged and everyone’s like… People are practically begging each other to be scared right now. That’s the world we live in. Everyone’s so afraid. Afraid of the air, afraid of politics, afraid of economic collapse, afraid of the apocalypse… And what we’re doing is radical in that we’re not activists like we used to be, who just symbolically hold signs and chant things. We’re changing the frequency that our heartspace emits, in order to uplift those around us who we come in contact with on the quantum level. And that’s really where it starts. It’s the hundredth monkey effect. Once enough people do this — and it does’t take many people to do this — things start shifting in that direction.

I really hope people will take this seriously, that Excitement does have an effect on the material world. You may not see it immediately, but it is there!

MZ: Perfect. I can’t think of a better way to wrap up. So, Alicen! Thank you as always, and merry late-December to you! …

AG: Thank you, thank you, thank you again for having me, and thank you everyone for listening!

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